who wants a DDR extreme or ITG in Berlin?
Moderator: Moderatoren
Hi there,
from what I can see in this "Gesetztestext",
the Tax for Operating such a Machine would be 153,39 Euro each Month.
§3.2.2
http://www.berlin.ihk24.de/BIHK24/BIHK2 ... estext.jsp
(GERMAN)
This document may be outdated, it was the first search Result from Google, and is meant from me as an Example.
I can't stress enough, how important it is to decide FOR ITG2.0 and AGAINST DDR Extreme (which also would be kind of illegal to operate in Germany!!) for this Community, and the movement of Machine Dance basically is!
DDR Ex is just another Dance Machine, whilst ITG will be THE Future Machine!
rgds
alex
P
from what I can see in this "Gesetztestext",
the Tax for Operating such a Machine would be 153,39 Euro each Month.
§3.2.2
http://www.berlin.ihk24.de/BIHK24/BIHK2 ... estext.jsp
(GERMAN)
This document may be outdated, it was the first search Result from Google, and is meant from me as an Example.
I can't stress enough, how important it is to decide FOR ITG2.0 and AGAINST DDR Extreme (which also would be kind of illegal to operate in Germany!!) for this Community, and the movement of Machine Dance basically is!
DDR Ex is just another Dance Machine, whilst ITG will be THE Future Machine!
rgds
alex
P
Ok. well 150€ is also reasonable, do you know that this is all, or do i have to pay tax on the income from the machine aswell?
I get your point with ITG2, and im going to gothenburg in sweden next week to look at a modded ITG2 machine, think it's a DDR cabinet with the ITG2 software (a brand new ITG2 cabinet is just too expensive, almost twice the price that i've been offered this cabinet for).
I get your point with ITG2, and im going to gothenburg in sweden next week to look at a modded ITG2 machine, think it's a DDR cabinet with the ITG2 software (a brand new ITG2 cabinet is just too expensive, almost twice the price that i've been offered this cabinet for).
gfrom what I can tell,
the 150 euro is only the "Joy and Fun"-Tax on the Machine itself.
from the income you also will need to pay tax i think.
also i think you will need a business license and be registered at the local finance government for operating a business like this..
you would be doing good by contacting a "Steuerberater" in Berlin i think.
Good luck!
rgds
alex
the 150 euro is only the "Joy and Fun"-Tax on the Machine itself.
from the income you also will need to pay tax i think.
also i think you will need a business license and be registered at the local finance government for operating a business like this..
you would be doing good by contacting a "Steuerberater" in Berlin i think.
Good luck!
rgds
alex
Ok, well i've pretty much decided for an ITG2, since it does feel more future proof, and also because of the upcoming championchips. If it gets as popular as i hope, i'll get a DDR machine too in a while, maybe the new DDR supernova..?
Im going back to Berlin in less than two weeks, then i will try to find a good location for this, and also arrange with all the permits and legal stuff. (since i already have a swedish buisniess license, it will probably not be too difficult.)
It would be good if you people can write down places in berlin that you think would be suitable for having this machine, and also that you think might be interested in cooperating with me on this.
Im going back to Berlin in less than two weeks, then i will try to find a good location for this, and also arrange with all the permits and legal stuff. (since i already have a swedish buisniess license, it will probably not be too difficult.)
It would be good if you people can write down places in berlin that you think would be suitable for having this machine, and also that you think might be interested in cooperating with me on this.
Funny! ^^ Am I really the first Berlin resident who's posting? Haha Well...there a lot of people living here in Berlin who play DDR. But it is always difficult to gather all of them together at a time. Also they don't check the forum very often, recently. Kind of obvious... haha ^^
Personally I prefer a DDR Extreme machine. I like the songs better.
Some time ago there was a big discussion of VierPfeile.de on where the first Berlin machine should be placed. The thread is still up, but in German...
To summarize a little bit of it: Mostly we suggested placing it at a shopping mall or a games library. There are a lot of the latter ones in Berlin as you may have already noticed yourself. To make sure it will be profitable, the place of choice was Potsdamer Platz. It is a famous spot in the centre of Berlin. The machine could be placed (for a limited time) in the so called Potsdamer Arkaden. The management of this guarded shopping mall goes by a subdivision of Daimler Chrysler.
The other option would be the biggest (and only?) casino of Berlin, which is on the opposite of the shopping mall. I think it was called “Casino Berlin”. ^^ They actually showed interest in placing a DDR machine at their place for evaluation purposes before. But that was long time ago... Besides the central location of the Potsdamer Platz in Berlin, another benefit is that it is so easily reachable by public transportation system (S1, S2, S25, U2, Bus…).
You choose…but bear in mind that games libraries, casinos, etc… have an age restriction of 18+
Personally I prefer a DDR Extreme machine. I like the songs better.
Some time ago there was a big discussion of VierPfeile.de on where the first Berlin machine should be placed. The thread is still up, but in German...
To summarize a little bit of it: Mostly we suggested placing it at a shopping mall or a games library. There are a lot of the latter ones in Berlin as you may have already noticed yourself. To make sure it will be profitable, the place of choice was Potsdamer Platz. It is a famous spot in the centre of Berlin. The machine could be placed (for a limited time) in the so called Potsdamer Arkaden. The management of this guarded shopping mall goes by a subdivision of Daimler Chrysler.The other option would be the biggest (and only?) casino of Berlin, which is on the opposite of the shopping mall. I think it was called “Casino Berlin”. ^^ They actually showed interest in placing a DDR machine at their place for evaluation purposes before. But that was long time ago... Besides the central location of the Potsdamer Platz in Berlin, another benefit is that it is so easily reachable by public transportation system (S1, S2, S25, U2, Bus…).
You choose…but bear in mind that games libraries, casinos, etc… have an age restriction of 18+
oh cool, so you have already been in contact with these places? I've also considered somewhere near potsdamer platz. I think it would be the perfect spot!
The casino feels a bit odd, at least unless they dont have any other videogames there..
Is there somwhere that doesn't have the age restriction that could work?
The casino feels a bit odd, at least unless they dont have any other videogames there..
Is there somwhere that doesn't have the age restriction that could work?
The casino was already contacted as far as I know, and has shown some interesst, but for some reason it didn't work out so far. I heard they want a machine but only for occasional events - not as a permanent setup. I think they will eventually get a machine, but there is little we can do at the moment to make that more likely or speed up the process. Better look at other possible locations, for example bowling alleys or billiard places. These bowling alleys already seem to have some video game machines:
http://www.kudamm-bowling.de/
http://www.east-side-bowling.de/
http://www.bowling-am-tierpark.de/
Maybe that is a starting point?
EDIT: And obviously bowling alleys don't have that age restriction problem.
http://www.kudamm-bowling.de/
http://www.east-side-bowling.de/
http://www.bowling-am-tierpark.de/
Maybe that is a starting point?
EDIT: And obviously bowling alleys don't have that age restriction problem.
Hey, hte idea to place the machine to a central location like Potsdamer Platz is great.
But I do have further ideas: In Berlin-Tegel Borsigwerke there is a Bowling center in the top, a cinema and a restaurant City Dinner. Both are being visited by a lot of young people all around the week - might be a interessting location to get also new players.
But I do have further ideas: In Berlin-Tegel Borsigwerke there is a Bowling center in the top, a cinema and a restaurant City Dinner. Both are being visited by a lot of young people all around the week - might be a interessting location to get also new players.
Ok, so now i bought the machine, or it even became machineS, i have one DDR solo (currently running stepmania, but it could easily be upgraded to ITG2 or DDR-extreme software. And also a pop'n music cabinet (and i also have a neo geo cabinet and a capcom CPS2 cabinet).
All of these machines are currently located in Malmö, south of sweden, where i currently live. But i'm moving to berlin the 1st of august, and i REALLY want to move machines there too.
Thing is.. the taxes. I've found out that germany apparently is a more arcadevideogameunfiendly (phew) country than sweden, and if moving my machines would cost me just 600€ a month in tax, i guess i cant afford it. (in sweden, i just have to pay tax on the income from them, not any monthly fees...)
However, i dont know much about german law, but one idea might be to place these in a non-public place, either to make only invited people play on them, or to make some kind of membership-club.
Anyone have any other thoughts about this?
As i said, i really want to move the machines to berlin, if someone have time to find out any other possible places to put them, please let me know!!
All of these machines are currently located in Malmö, south of sweden, where i currently live. But i'm moving to berlin the 1st of august, and i REALLY want to move machines there too.
Thing is.. the taxes. I've found out that germany apparently is a more arcadevideogameunfiendly (phew) country than sweden, and if moving my machines would cost me just 600€ a month in tax, i guess i cant afford it. (in sweden, i just have to pay tax on the income from them, not any monthly fees...)
However, i dont know much about german law, but one idea might be to place these in a non-public place, either to make only invited people play on them, or to make some kind of membership-club.
Anyone have any other thoughts about this?
As i said, i really want to move the machines to berlin, if someone have time to find out any other possible places to put them, please let me know!!
Great news. Ff you keep the machines in non public rooms obviously no tax needs to be paid. If you want to put the machines in a public place, you can minimize the tax by choosing a place that is not a "Spielhalle" (arcade) or similiar. Monthly tax for a machine without the possiblity of winning money is 12,78€ if it isn't at a arcade or similiar location, while the monthly tax for the same machine would be 153,39€. So a place like a bowling avenue would be much better than arcade. Something else to note: (may be a problem for the neo geo and cps2 depending on the game) violent games can be subject to different tax rate: 613,55€/month. (No matter if at arcade or somewhere)
oh, that's great news!
But what's the juridical definition of "arcade" ? a place where you can't do anything else but play games?
And also, who decides if a game is violent enough to get the higher tax rate? For example, do you think a game like metal slug (with white blood) would be classified as a violent one? King of fighters?
Anyway, this is really good news, and the chances for all you berlin people to get these two beauties (+ my other 2 games) just became much bigger!
(i also own one of the cacpom cabinets that you can se in this picture)
But what's the juridical definition of "arcade" ? a place where you can't do anything else but play games?
And also, who decides if a game is violent enough to get the higher tax rate? For example, do you think a game like metal slug (with white blood) would be classified as a violent one? King of fighters?
Anyway, this is really good news, and the chances for all you berlin people to get these two beauties (+ my other 2 games) just became much bigger!
(i also own one of the cacpom cabinets that you can se in this picture)
Zuletzt geändert von saidk am Mo 17. Apr 2006, 10:51, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I can just read the law and guess. From what I have seen and heard a arcade is a place where the main attraction is playing games, or where you have big areas dedicated just for that. So selling drinks isn't enough to make your place not an arcade. But a bowling avenue, a restaurant, billiard place etc. isn't a "arcade", because people usually don't go there for the games but to play bowling, eat something, etc. I think the easiest way to safe would be looking for a place that already got some games and just ask them what kind of tax they are paying. What kind of deal do want to negotiate with the owner of the place?
Now for the violent games question, really hard to tell. I think Metal Slug or KoF wouldn't be considered a violent game, but the wording of the law isn't well-defined, so it is risky imho.
Especially pop'n music would be really cool, I think there is a good possibility for a ITG2, EM2 or something like that, but until yesterday getting PnM in Berlin seemed completely unlikely.
Now for the violent games question, really hard to tell. I think Metal Slug or KoF wouldn't be considered a violent game, but the wording of the law isn't well-defined, so it is risky imho.
Especially pop'n music would be really cool, I think there is a good possibility for a ITG2, EM2 or something like that, but until yesterday getting PnM in Berlin seemed completely unlikely.
Hmm, one thing i think would be really cool, would be to start some kind of gaming club, it would be cool to have a locale where all people interested in videogames could meet. or maybe there already is something similar?
obviously this would be good for tax reasons, but also i think it would be a lot of fun and a nice way to get to know people with similar interests.
what do you think?
obviously this would be good for tax reasons, but also i think it would be a lot of fun and a nice way to get to know people with similar interests.
what do you think?
